Interview with Shmuel Troper, Early February 2002

Miles Hochstein - What was your job there (at the Palestine Electric Corporation)?

Shmuel Troper - I was a messenger... actually I was an office assistant.

How many years did you work there?

Shmuel Troper - For one year.

What did you do next?

Shmuel Troper - Then I went to work for Dr. Stern, an engineer. He worked for himself. I was an apprentice. He was a mechanical engineer.

How old were you at that time?

Shmuel Troper - It was a big shame that I was moved to Tel Aviv because I had to stop my studies.

How old were you when you entered the army.

Shmuel Troper - When I went to the army I was 17 and a half.

What year was that?

Shmuel Troper - 1947.

And when you went was there a sense that war was coming?

Shmuel Troper - Oh yes. That was when the British were still in Palestine.

So everybody you knew was going?

Shmuel Troper - Well not everybody... because people... this was the underground really.

So was it hard to connect up with the army?

Shmuel Troper - It wasn't the army really...as I said it was the underground you know.

So how did you connect with them?

Shmuel Troper - Well, I had friends who were connected.

So what do you say to your friend?

Shmuel Troper - I don't know what I said... really. I was in a youth organization that...

They point you in the right direction?

Shmuel Troper - Yes... Later read this to me....

Where do you go to enlist in the Palmach... part of the Haganah...

Shmuel Troper - It was part of the Hagannah really.

In 1947 the the Palmach was still separate from the Hagannah, no?

Shmuel Troper - No. The Palmach was not separate...

The British are still there, so where do you go... to a camp... to a room?

Shmuel Troper - There was a building some where of the youth organization, that belonged to the Histadrute....I remember I was 17 and a half and I really ... its not that I don't remember but.... it was still in Tel Aviv You see there was a time when I had to join fully and this was in the middle of 19__

You see Israel was declared as a a state in 1947... and I was sent... I was asked to go to the Negev, so I hitchhiked really... its funny... I hitchhiked to Ruchama... and there I joined a permanent ... joined permanently Gadud HaTshei... the ninth... and because of my previous training as a mechanic I got a rank of lance corporal...

Was there a large concentration of people there?

Shmuel Troper - Never large... everything was very small... I don't think that we were more than 100 people...

And what was your mission... were you focussed on Egyptian forces?

Shmuel Troper - Oh yes... Nasser was... I remember that they were shooting tremendously ... very heavy fire and...

At your position in Ruchama?

Shmuel Troper - Not really...it looked ... we had to be very ... we were shooting very scarcely but they were shooting very heavily... you could see heavy fire all over the place.. We simply had to be very careful how much we were shooting... also there was no reason to shoot too much.

Why not?

Shmuel Troper - Because we were very scarce... we didn't have much ammunition.

So were you trying to advance or simply to hold the position?

Shmuel Troper - No we were trying to ... although Ruchama was our base, I remember that they used to call it the depot, and we usually used to go out five or 6 jeeps in a unit, and we used to go .... this I remember very well.... we would go mostly ... we would travel at night... except sometimes during the day... and we would travel mostly not on the road.. not on paved roads... I remember that our commander was somebody by the name of Karmi and later it was... you know really I ... I don't remember the name... yes Israel Karmi, and later it was... he was replaced by...

You would go out on these missions... you were off the road... what were they like? Was there a lot of fear or boredom or both?

Shmuel Troper - No there was no fear really. ...

Above, left: 1940s.         Above, right: Shmuel on the left, and his tall friend on the right

Interview conducted on February 24, 2002

You were stationed in the Negev for how long? All of the war?

Shmuel Troper - Oh yes.. but you see I didn't start in the Negev. I started at the headquarters of the Palmach in Tel Aviv.

Doing what?

Shmuel Troper - I was protecting the Port of Tel Aviv which is a very small port. And the reason was ... you see I was a leader of a youth organization (HaNoar HaOved)... and then I was asked to go to the Negev... you realize that the whole thing was very loosely organized.... and then after a short time... a question of a few weeks or a couple of months, I was asked to hitchhike to Ruhama, kibbutz Ruhama.

So that's how you got there....And you were there for the whole war?

Shmuel Troper - Yes.

When did the war end...?

Shmuel Troper - We were still fighting into 1949... I think so.

What did you do after that... after military service?

Shmuel Troper - I went to work for an agency that serviced companies like Powers Samas... and serviced Addressograph Multigraph.... the name of the agency was... I don't remember.... I have it written down somewhere. (Later: the name of the company was Hevra L'Pailute Misradite....)

What was your job with that agency?

Shmuel Troper - My job was in a service part of it.

So you fixed machines?

Shmuel Troper - Yeah, I fixed machines.

How many years were you primarily engaged in this work for this agency?

Shmuel Troper - I worked for them until ....

Was it two years. five years. 10 years?

Shmuel Troper - See when I resigned I left the country... I think it was

So you were working for this company for a number of years.

Shmuel Troper - Oh yes.

This would be the early 1950s... ...so at least through the 1950s you were working for this company. What was the first year you ever left the country?

Shmuel Troper - 1956.... I was sent by my company to study a machine in Croydon England (South London).

What machine?

Shmuel Troper - A machine that produces punch card machines.

And where did you live in the early 1950s?

Shmuel Troper - With my parents in Tel Aviv.

Did your siblings live with you at that time?

Shmuel Troper - Yes... wait a minute.. my sister still lived in Jerusalem. She was employed in Jerusalem and lived there... it was quite a distance, especially in those days.

What was her work?

Shmuel Troper - She was a secretary for Kol Yisrael... the radio station for Sherut Ha'Shidur. That's right, she lived there in Jerusalem.

So you lived with your parents...

Shmuel Troper - Yes, and my brother.

He's your older sibling.

Shmuel Troper - Yes.

What line of work was he in?

Shmuel Troper - He worked for the telephone company... He was a mechanic there.

Was it crowded to have the four of you to live in that apartment together....? or comfortable?

Shmuel Troper - I never considered it uncomfortable until I came to the US. It was a two room apartment... so really, actually. At the begining we lived with my aunt, until we rented an apartment... consisting of two rooms.

So there were two rooms and a bathroom.

Shmuel Troper - Oh yes, and a kitchen.

What street was it on?

Shmuel Troper - Rehov Yesod HaMalah 31.

How would you describe the street, the neighborhood?

Shmuel Troper - It was very noisy, because all the traffic that was leaving the Tachana Hamercazit (central bus station)....all the traffic that was going anywhere was going through that street.

So your parents and your resources were limited? It wasn't a good area?

Shmuel Troper - For those days it was OK.

During those years of your youth did you have girlfriends and date?

Shmuel Troper - Yes I did.

Were there a few special ones?

Shmuel Troper - There was one who was special.. her name was Yehudit.

This one (Judith, his current wife?)

Shmuel Troper - No... I started very young... this was in Jerusalem.. as a matter of fact I was the first one in my class who had a girlfriend... I was 14 or 14 and a half... something like that.

And where does young man take a young woman in the 1940s Israel?

Shmuel Troper - Well you go to see a movie.

Do you go out to eat?

Shmuel Troper - No.

Why not? Too expensive?

Shmuel Troper - Well when I was 14 and a half, it was really expensive.

So this girlfriend Yehudit.. that was when you were 14?

Shmuel Troper - Yeah.

How did you part?

Shmuel Troper - Oh that was terrible... my parents left Jerusalem and moved to Tel Aviv. And then her mother had an accident... she burned herself in the kitchen... and Yehudit had to go and visit her every day... and mainly the trouble was that my parents left Jerusalem.

And why did they have to leave Jerusalem?

Shmuel Troper - Because my father.. he lost a job because he wanted to organize the workers at the conditory...

Bakery?

Shmuel Troper - It was a more advanced bakery... so he started on his own to bake goods and it was very tough....

To market them?

Shmuel Troper - Yeah, to market them. So he moved to Tel Aviv, and in Tel Aviv my uncle hired him as a painter.

Did he like being a baker?

Shmuel Troper - Whether he liked it or not I don't know.... but he really had to do something so he did that. I would say he was very successful in producing product, but obviously he wasn't doing well economically, and they decided to move to Tel Aviv. Because really you know to work as a painter... that was not fun at all. So he .... my aunt gave us accommodation... she lived on the border of Jaffa and Tel Aviv and she got me a job at the Palestine Electric Corporation.

By the way, the girlfriend I had, just happened to sit next to me in the class, and she said that I was a genius... and really, I was....It was HaGymnasia HaRealit so mainly you studied math physics, but I was supposed to study everything because I didn't have to pay for going to that school, and when the school master decided noticed that when I finished an exam.. I used to finish it in about 15 minutes... but I stayed in the class to help other kids... so he used to send me out to his office to take tests.. so I wouldn't be a nuisance to him and he wouldn't have to watch me after I finished the test... But he also forced me to study all subjects including Latin... because she was very good in Latin...

Yehudit was good in Latin?

Shmuel Troper - Yeah

You and she together were a smart team?

Shmuel Troper - Yes, very smart team.

But you had to leave the Gymnasia when you moved to Tel Aviv?

Shmuel Troper - Because I was moved to Tel Aviv, yes.

Were you upset by that move?

Shmuel Troper - Oh, very much.

Did you then go to school in Tel Avv?

Shmuel Troper - I went to evening school.

But it wasn't as good quality?

Shmuel Troper - Its not a question of quality, so much as the time... I had to work. But my aunt got me a job at the Palestine Electric corporation.. and she managed to get me a very good job there. I was working in the office of the general manager...

Doing what?

Shmuel Troper - I was doing office work.

So in 1956 they sent you off to England?

Shmuel Troper - Yes.

How did you feel about that assignment?

Shmuel Troper - Very good... you know it was the first time I ever left the country, except during the war when we invaded Egypt.

What was the trip like?

Shmuel Troper - Very exciting.

How so?

Shmuel Troper - Well first time ever I went on a ship.. And on the ship I met a good friend of mine and his wife. It wasn't boring at all!

And when you got to England where did you go to live?

Shmuel Troper - The company Powers Samas sent me to live with the widow of one of their employees. After being with her for one week, I decided that if I couldn't find any place better I would go back to Israel. She was really something else. She was very stingy. It was terribly cold in her apartment. So the first Saturday I went the local synagogue. I found out where it was... and after the service .... by the way, they received me with a big honor... came in from Israel! They called me to the Torah... it was the first time in my life to be called to the Torah. I went to the rabbi... he spoke Hebrew... I told him my predicament... that I am looking for a Jewish place ... I don't remember exactly what I said to him... so he said to me... Oh I'll send you to Mrs. Berg... I was immediately sure that she must be a good cook... she was a fat little lady... she said to me she doesn't have any room anymore, everything was full, but since I am from Israel, she will let me have a room that she usually doesn't rent to anybody, but she will rent it to me. So she invited me to eat, and the meal was fantastic, but I said to her, I eat now, but I don't believe in the future I will want that much to eat... she also was a widow really, and she has a son living with his family in the building or house...so the second meal came and I said "I don't want that much" she said what she said... I decided that this is an excellent place... and after a couple of months she was taken to the hospital because the doctor told her she was eating too much.

So while you were living there you did your work and met Judith (Miller, his wife)?

Shmuel Troper - Oh, so then I don't know how I found out about Bet Hillel. Of course now I know better... and there I met Shula... but I decided that she was religious you know...so I didn't want to invite... I found her very interesting really, but.... after a while I met Judith.

Ah! I remember that I met the factory manager... hundreds of people worked there.... I told her... and they liked my workmanship... they found it superb... I said to her that I really would like to stay in the country longer, so Mr. Barber, the manager of the factory, "I'll tell you what. We like your work, so in order for you to receive a work permit it will take about a month.... " So I said "OK I'll come back in a month." So my supervisor said to me invited me for dinner at his house, and he said to me when I came to his house "you know we are of the same religion" so I said to him "are you Jewish?" He didn't look Jewish at all... He said I think he said he was Jehovah Witnesses.. so somehow I got out of it. (laughs.)

And then another time when I want to Hillel house I met two girls from Israel. They said they would like to go to Scotland. So I told them I have a month I'm waiting for a work permit. They said that's wonderful... because they were looking for a male who would hitchhike with them... so we hitchhiked all the way to Ulpole in Scottland... Judy knows.. about 40 years later I took Judy there and it looked the same as when I had visited 40 years earlier... So I hitchhiked with the two girls.. one of them was really a pain in the neck..

Remember their names?

Shmuel Troper - No I don't remember, but I do have their names written somewhere.

That sounds fun!

Shmuel Troper - Yeah, it was fun! Oh and when we arrived to Ulapool, I found it very interesting to meet the people...

What was interesting about the people?

Shmuel Troper - Well when they found that I was born in Jerusalem, it was a very important thing for them.... And on the way... you realize that for many of them, they had never met anybody from Israel... or some of them... one of them was a former police officer in the British police in Haifa...

How was that?

Shmuel Troper - It was interesting for him to meet... It got to be that we took turns who would sit next to the driver, and it was very tiring... and the driver would talk to who ever sits next to him. I remember once we had to separate... I don't remember why... I remember that we decided to go to the Isle of Sky...and once in York... only once we had to separate, because there was no way we could catch anybody who would take us... usually it was very easy... We became very choosy whom we would go with.

Where or how did you first meet Judith?

Shmuel Troper - The event was that we were both late to arrive to the Shabbat meal. We had to pay a small amount for it. I was late because it was Friday of course, and I had to work until 5. Judy arrived from the North of London.

You were introduced.? Someone said this is Judith?

Shmuel Troper - No, I introduced myself.

What did you say to Judith?

Shmuel Troper - I don't know. We had to talk a lot from the very begining.

What do you mean? Why did you have to talk?

Shmuel Troper - You didn't have to but you found it interesting to talk to the people you meet...

Oh I see... in general.

Shmuel Troper - Yes in general.

But I want to know what went on between you and Judith at the begining.

Shmuel Troper - Not about the weather... maybe I discovered that she was interested in music.... but this was before I left on my long hitchhiking trip.

So did you think about her on the hitchhiking trip?

Shmuel Troper - I'm not sure. I don't remember really.

How did things develop when you got back?

Shmuel Troper - I called her... I remember.. I bought tickets to the festival hall.. you know this is the concert hall.. and I asked her whether she would like to come and listen to a concert... I told her they are going to play "La Force del Destino".. this is music by Verdi.

She liked that?

Shmuel Troper - This is the only reason she decided to go out with me. This is what she said later... but she couldn't remember what I looked like! She didn't remember because it was a month later.

So you remembered her but she didn't remember you. After you took her out you saw her a lot? Didn't you get engaged very quickly?

Shmuel Troper - It wasn't that we got engaged in a few weeks....

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(Note by Miles: In this interview with Sam Troper, conducted after his early strokes, Shmuel often didn't complete his thoughts or ideas, so it may appear that I was interrupting him, but this was not the case. I was simply trying to draw incomplete thoughts and sentences out.)